I apologize in advance for answering further G+ BS here at The Tavern, but as it is Zak's thread and he has me blocked, I have little choice.
This time, I answer Stacy Dellorforno.
First - I never saw you at NTRPG Con Stacy. If you saw me as often as you did, you should have introduced yourself. Rach was actually looking forward to meeting you (she knows few women in gaming) - perhaps not so much after your insult of Merle Rasmussen,
Yes, I spent much of the Con with my wife. And with Zach Glazer, Doug Kovaks, Matt Finch, Rich LeBanc, Vince Florio and his wife, David P, Mark H, Bad Mike, Doug Rhea, The Wolfes, James Aulds, Glenn Halstrom, Mike and Liz, Tim Kask, Frank Mentzer, Jeff Talanian and many others. Jeff Grubb was kind enough to ensure I'd fail my save against Gaming Greatness. I talked business with a few and bullshitted with all. I think between Wednesday Afternoon and Monday Morning we didn't have company for our meals once.
If I was having as much fun as a rock, rocks must be the life of the party.
As for the offending post that upset Stacy so much, here it is - offending post - my schtick? Women don't NEED to DM to be empowered in gaming but they do need to fly on their own. Not every player wants to be a DM.
Gamers come to gaming through the network that introduces them to gaming. If there is a dearth of women gamers in the OSR right now than the main pathway for them to be introduced to gaming is by men. Same as kids being introduced to gaming by adults. The established network brings in new blood and spouses make ideal conduits for the introduction of shared passions and hobbies. New blood will build their own networks and the face of gaming will change with it.
Back to the slight of Merle Rasmussen, the designer of the Top Secret RPG. Did you know his wife was in the room for the whole game? They introduced themselves to me at dinner after the session. Simply amazing people. I should be surprised by your rush to judgement.
Now, let me parse the logic - Old Guard game designer GM's a game for three women with his wife in the room, and it's insulting.
Zak S GM's for a group exclusively made up of women from the adult entertainment industry, and that's something you support.
I'm confused.
edit - Stacy, feel free to respond here or on G+
The only important part is that you had fun, your wife joined the hobby and is having fun, and that you got to enjoy gaming together. Leave it to the internet to uselessly inject hurting wrong fun judgment of how it looks from the outside into the whole thing.
ReplyDeleteStacy's entire post is just... dumb. Even if you were an anti-social rock (which no one believes for a second), who the fuck cares? What does that have to do with anything?
ReplyDeleteAnd this whole sexist/feminist/oppression stuff is beyond old and worthless. This is the 21st century. If anyone wants to be treated better than they currently are, they've got to earn that shit. There are precious few handouts in this life.
Just a couple of points.
ReplyDeleteOur professional promotional people (the serving wenches) dressed normally (in whatever clothing they prefer) and serving food and drinks to attendees isn't insulting, unless the point is we should have had a male one also (Problem is, nearly all promotional employees are women, and I seriously doubt any males would jump at the chance to work a 90% male gaming con). The girls are treated respectfully and aren't required to cheesecake it up at all. Don't understand that one.
The all-female game was sort of an experiment. Both Jim Ward and Merle Rasmussen were supposed to run one (all female games) to gauge interest, the intent being to "separate" women from their husands/boyfriends for at least one game and see if they liked playing at an all-female table. If so, it could become a "thing" every year, maybe someday with a female DM/gamemaster also. Alas Jim could not attend, and Merle had to go alone for one of his Top Secret sessions. I'm not aware of Merle doing anything overtly sexist, and those who participated had fun.
Stacy is busy at Gencon right now but I'm hoping I can talk to her privately about this when she is finished.
Well, your hiring women for honest work and paying them a decent wage was clearly sexist because of reasons and so on and whatnot.
DeleteSounds like Slander to me!!
ReplyDeleteIf it is in print it is libel.....
ReplyDelete"I'm sure he saw me too..."
ReplyDeleteWow, I wonder how she fits at a gaming table with a head that big.
She fits just fine, it's just that her head falls forward and lays on the table throughout the game and works as a sort of huge GM screen.
DeleteI'm pretty much to the point that if I see complaints about "women in X" I'm not going to read a well thought out discussion but just more whining that checks a bunch of boxes on the arguing on the internet checklist (http://monsterhunternation.com/2013/09/20/the-internet-arguing-checklist/)
ReplyDeleteStacy did not provide a counter example. What I did find was:
1. Skim until offended.
2. Disregard Inconvenient facts.
I'm pretty much to the point that if I see complaints about "women in X" I'm not going to read a well thought out discussion but just more whining that checks a bunch of boxes on the arguing on the internet checklist (http://monsterhunternation.com/2013/09/20/the-internet-arguing-checklist/)
ReplyDeleteStacy did not provide a counter example. What I did find was:
1. Skim until offended.
2. Disregard Inconvenient facts.
An entertaining box of rocks: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1162/burp
ReplyDeleteWhy are serving wenches "insulting"? A woman takes a job that is somehow beneath Dellorfano and that is offensive in some way? Interesting when some find honest labor beneath them. How does it even affect Dellorfano? What's that? It doesn't? Does she just wander around looking for things to be insulted and offended by? Did they spit in her drink because she's acting like an a-hole and treating them as beneath her station in life? If not, they should have.
ReplyDeleteWell, she's a journalist of sorts, I guess? They usually react with horror to any encounter with working people or actual toil.
DeleteTrue enough, especially limousine liberal types who champion the unwashed masses but wouldn't be caught dead actually having to live among us.
DeleteI appreciate the support folks.
ReplyDeleteRach was initially going to have her own part in the post, but the Merle insult, the Bad Wrong Fun angle and the insult she felt Stacey was throwing her way made it better to have her post at a later point.
If you've met Rach you might not realize that she's been legally blind since childhood. She's never used it as a crutch in schooling or her career. She's earned everything she has. She appreciates Stacey's goals but Stacy does not speak for all women, especially her.
That is NOT an exact quote. The exact quote dropped the C-bomb quite liberally ;)
"The exact quote dropped the C-bomb quite liberally."
DeleteWait, that sounds like MY wife. Except for the part where you successfully talked her out of it.
Jesus fuck. Tenkar's Tavern - come for the OSR, stay for the dirty laundry!
ReplyDeleteThat post of hers is actually kinda creepy.
ReplyDeleteTwo points...
ReplyDeleteI didn't really get to talk to Merle Rasmussen for more than a couple of minutes during the Con but on the last afternoon (Sunday), after most have already departed, he approached me and my two kids out of the blue and handed each of us a shrink-wrapped boxed card game called Sqwyrm that he created back in the day, early 80's I think. He had no reason to do that other than the kindness of his heart. In the few moments I talked to him then, he seemed like a nice man.
As for Tenkar, I walked right up to him at the Con and introduced myself as a regular reader of the Tavern. I told him I enjoyed his blog posts and we talked for a few minutes. I ran into him several more times at the Con and talked to him briefly each time. He is a perfectly approachable guy, friendly and easy to talk to. He seemed to be having plenty of fun and at least once told me how enjoyable the whole Con experience was for him. Not sure how you can walk past someone a few times and infer that they are not having fun without talking to them. At any rate, I encourage anyone reading this to talk to Tenkar if you spot him at a Con. He won't bite! (at least I don't think he will)
Wow! What was the problem with Mr. Rasmussen? I couldn't find an article that Stacy had written describing the problem? How was he allegedly insulting? Was it because he was a man running a game for women?
ReplyDeleteDoes her con run counter to NTRPG? I would love to go to NTRPG. I think she was transferring her feelings onto Tenkar. She wasn't having a good time, so she thought no one was having a good time.
I've been told that is called Proejctive Identification
DeleteOn the contrary, per her FB and Google+ posts, Stacy had a great time at the con. Contessa and NTRPG con compete in no way at all. So I really would like to talk to her after Gencon and see what is on her mind. I'm hoping it was just something written in haste that came out wrong. Who knows.
DeleteI think Stacy's comments have little if anything to do with NTRPG Con and have much to do with comments I made when she was bemoaning the dearth of female GM's stepping up to run games at a recent Contessa.
DeleteGet more women into gaming and you'll get more women GMs. She was putting the horse before the cart in my opinion.
At least I can truly say I added a woman to the gaming pool even if Stacy has a problem with the way I did or with my encouraging Rach to play in an "all girl" Top Secret session with the creator of the game.
Bad Mike, sorry you and NTRPG got caught up in Stacey's "hate on" of me.