The surprising answer is Yes AND No. Sure, they are supposed to make a good faith effort to attempt to complete their project in a timely fashion, but if it's all for naught there really isn't much you can do as a supporter. Kickstarter can't even force a refund. It really is a gamble of a sort.
What does Kickstarter say about it in their FAQ? A whole lot of stuff about how they are not responsible and you are shit outa luck if the project creator craps out along the way.
All this frustrates the living shit out of me, especially as our hobby has turned Kickstarter into it's premiere pre-order system
Who is responsible for completing a project as promised?
It's the project creator's responsibility to complete their project (emphasis mine) Kickstarter is not involved in the development of the projects themselves.
Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. (read this again) On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.
How do backers know if a project will follow through?
Launching a Kickstarter is a very public act, and creators put their reputations at risk when they do. (yes they do. our hobby is small. I think we are learning that a popular name behind a project does not mean they have any idea on how to complete a project)
Backers should look for creators who share a clear plan for how their project will be completed and who have a history of doing so. Creators are encouraged to share links and as much background information as possible so backers can make informed decisions about the projects they support.
If a creator has no demonstrable experience in doing something like their project (this is most of those looking to do kickstarters in our hobby - just because I am an active blogger does not mean I can put together a kickstarter project. at least I'm honest) or doesn't share key information, backers should take that into consideration. Does the creator include links to any websites that show work related to the project, or past projects? Does the creator appear in the video? Have they connected via Facebook?
Don't hesitate to request information from a creator. (I'll be doing this religiously to find out just how far along the actual creation process is. I can no longer support projects that are scratch note on index cards and a shit load of marketing) You can always reach out before pledging via the "Contact me" button on the project page.
How do I know a project creator is who they claim they are?
Perhaps you know the project creator, or you heard about the project from a trusted source.
Maybe they have a first-person video. That would be hard to fake. "Is it really U2?!" Well, it is if Bono's talking about the project. (very few of us in the hobby of gaming are known by face - this doesn't help much)
Still not sure? Look for the creator bio section on the project page. Are they Facebook Connected? (fuck Facebook) Do they provide links for further verification? The web is an invaluable resource for learning more about a person.
At the end of the day, use your internet street smarts. (regretfully, you have to get screwed at least once before they usually start to kick in)
What should creators do if they're having problems completing their project?
If problems come up, creators are expected to post a project update (which is emailed to all backers) explaining the situation. Sharing the story, speed bumps and all, is crucial. Most backers support projects because they want to see something happen and they'd like to be a part of it. Creators who are honest and transparent will usually find backers to be understanding. (yep, and hiding under a rock has the reverse effect. this becomes less and less effective as time goes on)
It's not uncommon for things to take longer than expected. (it is unlikely the project you are supporting will be ready remotely on time) Sometimes the execution of the project proves more difficult than the creator had anticipated. If a creator is making a good faith effort to complete their project and is transparent about it, backers should do their best to be patient and understanding while demanding continued accountability from the creator.
If the problems are severe enough that the creator can't fulfill their project (will never happen - you'll just get strung along forever), creators need to find a resolution. Steps could include offering refunds, detailing exactly how funds were used, and other actions to satisfy backers. (refunds will rarely happen - after kickstarter and amazon fees, refunds will result in the loss of hundreds or thousands of dollars for the project creator)
Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?
Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill. (read the next part and scratch your head)
Can Kickstarter refund the money if a project is unable to fulfill?
No. Kickstarter doesn't issue refunds as transactions are between backers and creators, and creators receive all funds (after fees) soon after their campaign ends. Creators have the ability to refund backers through Amazon Payments (for US projects) and Kickstarter (for UK projects). (so, kickstarter can't force a creator to refund for a failed project)
Why can't Kickstarter guarantee projects?
We started Kickstarter as a new way for creators and audiences to work together to make things. The traditional funding systems are risk-averse and profit-focused, and tons of great ideas never get a chance. We thought Kickstarter could open the door to a much wider variety of ideas and allow everyone to decide what they wanted to see exist in the world.
Kickstarter is full of ambitious, innovative, and imaginative ideas. Many of the projects you see on Kickstarter are in earlier stages of development (I'm done supporting RPG projects in the early stages of development) and are looking for a community to bring them to life. The fact that Kickstarter allows creators to take risks and attempt to create something new is a feature, not a bug. (there SHOULD be very little risk in completing an RPG project in a timely maner. This isn't rocket science)
What is Kickstarter doing about fulfillment?
As Kickstarter has grown, we've made changes to improve accountability and fulfillment. In August 2011 we began requiring creators to list an "Estimated Delivery Date" for all rewards. This was done to make creators think hard about when they could deliver, and to underline that Kickstarter is not a traditional shopping experience. (no, kickstarter has turned into an RPG pre-order system)
In May 2012 we added additional guidelines and requirements for Product Design and Technology projects. These include requiring creators to provide information about their background and experience, a manufacturing plan (for hardware projects), and a functional prototype. We made this change to ensure that creators have done their research before launching and backers have sufficient information when deciding whether to back these projects.
We've also allocated more staff to trust and safety. We look into projects reported by our community for guidelines violations and suspicious activity, and we take action when necessary. These efforts are focused on fraud and acceptable uses of Kickstarter, not a creator's ability to complete a project and fulfill. On Kickstarter, backers ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.
Sunday, November 18, 2012
Are Creators Responsible to Complete Their Kickstarters? (and Other Kickstarter Questions)
Labels:
kickstarter
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Tenkar's Tavern is supported by various affiliate programs, including Amazon, RPGNow,
and Humble Bundle as well as Patreon. Your patronage is appreciated and helps keep the
lights on and the taps flowing. Your Humble Bartender, Tenkar
Blogs of Inspiration & Erudition
-
-
Your Advanced Player’s Handbook - Depending upon your point of view, when it comes to roleplaying games, we live in an age blessed or cursed by choice. There are too many to choose from, t...3 hours ago
-
October Movie Challenge: Monster Marathon - [image: Blood Tide (1982)] It's the weekend, and that means double feature time. Though I am likely to hit more double features snce I still have a lot of m...10 hours ago
-
OSR Campaign Session Report - Amazing Adventures Rpg - Post Weird War II Campaign - Onward toward The Earth's Core! - World War II has just ended a few years ago after the events of the Fall of Berlin. Events happened with the following in '46; "Berlin is encased in an im...15 hours ago
-
Adventures in Gloomwood - By Roberto MarcariniOld School FoxOSELevels 3-4 Beyond those tangled boughs, deep within the forest, the cure that could save Baron Duncan Bravewater and h...1 day ago
-
Basil and Pandora - Just to make a change from tiny aeroplanes for a moment, here are a couple of character minis I made for a *Fantasy Hero* campaign I was running, years...2 days ago
-
Mini Thoughts: When the sculpt starts to bug you - Have you ever found yourself working on a mini, and there’s something about it that just… isn’t right? Some aspect of the sculpt that just feels wrong? L...2 days ago
-
Unfulfilled Aspirations - Sometimes it’s enough to know that something is possible, even if you never achieve it. I’m drawn back to playing Frontier as a kid. I played a lot of t...4 days ago
-
100 days of B/X (part IV - B15 to B18) - spellcasting - Continued from here. In B15, we’ve reached one of the hardest parts to convert to my minimalist system, which is magic. This happens for several reasons. ...4 days ago
-
[SUPPLEMENT] Gamemaster’s Guidelines Beyond Fomalhaut (NOW AVAILABLE!) - *A Tome of Mastery“Heavy is the head that wears the crown! In role-playing games, the position of the gamemaster carries the most responsibility, as it is...4 days ago
-
5e-splaining the OSR - I recently watched an interesting YouTube video in which Ben Milton and somebody I have not heard of before called Daði discuss, among other things, OSR ...5 days ago
-
Free GM Resource: d4 Caltrops - [image: Free GM Resource: d4 Caltrops] This week's Free GM Resource is a blog with, at the time of this post, 319 random tables. Now d4 Caltrops has more ...5 days ago
-
Simple Transit Tables & Rates - Just some tables for land and sea trips *Coach Rates* -cross a city ward 1cp 10-30 minutes -cross a city ward in a posh ...6 days ago
-
Funny Music Part 1 - https://www.patreon.com/u3015466/posts/funny-music-part-171935785?pr=true1 week ago
-
DF Felltower - Caps & Limits Draft II - Further Reflections - I'm still noodling around with my ideas in this last post. *Absolute Base Skill Cap* Skills are capped at 30. Skills above 30 can be purchased, or you can...1 week ago
-
The Spellbooks of Mydwandr... - Spellcasters in the *Mydwandr* RPG (and its eponymous setting) exploit a natural talent known to few beyond the mysterious elves, shaping the materials o...1 week ago
-
Money in Mutants & Wizards - Money and wealth is always an issue in Post-apoc gaming. Mutants & Wizards uses precious metals with the expectation of bartering occurring where that's ...2 weeks ago
-
Geeky SKAturday: The Family Business Ltd. - Life is wild. Sometimes I'll have a stretch of time where I feel like I'm truly in a groove accomplishing the things I was presumably put upon this planet...2 weeks ago
-
Crypts and Things: Deal of the Day at DriveThruRPG - I thought that I would mention that my favourite OSR ("Old School Renaissance") RPG -- *Crypts and Things* -- is currently on sale (60% off the PDF!) at ...2 weeks ago
-
Why is the Ogre there? - Joe's post on the Quantum Ogre raises an old question about sandbox play: when does moving an encounter around interfere with players' freedom to decide...4 weeks ago
-
Dragonne #2 now available - The second issue of Dragonne is now available! BRW Games’ occasional journal of old-school gaming is back with two new features; To subscribe for free, and...4 weeks ago
-
-
Vanishing Blogs From The Old Days - There are so many RPG related blogs on every genre and category of RPG. Periodically I discover that another blog is no more when an app on my blog reports...2 months ago
-
Murder mystery - The local adventurers guild named "fernleaf and associates" is basically a sleuthing agency. The patron is an older elf named Flynn fernleaf. He pays wel...2 months ago
-
The Common Store of Monsters - I am slowly grinding my way through the re-writes for Veins of the Earth. As part of the re-write I have re-organised the ‘Pariahs of the Earth’ monsters ...2 months ago
-
Film Notes: A Selection of Recent(ish) Obscure(ish) Horror Films - Horror has a (well-earned) reputation as a wastebin genre. Here are a few horror-adjacent films, largely without jumpscares, musical stings, and cheap tr...3 months ago
-
The Old School (Hyperborean) Renaissance - Are these poorly-masked adventure hooks? Yes, yes they are. For the last century a peculiar fever has gripped the learned societies of Marlinko, Kezmaro...4 months ago
-
Micro-Adventure - #114 RATS! - Dungeon tropes are a thing to embrace, not to dismiss. It's simple to handwave the storm the orc infested tower to save the princess, evil wizard in a t...5 months ago
-
Moldvay Basic D&D now Available in Print - Just a quick note that (finally) Moldvay Basic D&D is available in POD from DTRPG – previously, only the Cook/Marsh … Continue reading →5 months ago
-
Abstraction in My Liege, - I think the aspect of *My Liege,* that could potentially put off the most people is its lack of accounting granularity. It does not track Court wealth in...5 months ago
-
Castle Greyhawk Four New Dungeon Level Maps Revealed - CZ Act 1 "Alpha Preview" Map TLG published a Castle Zagyg "Alpha Preview" to CZ1 backers on 2 April 2026, showing one-quarter of The Cellars, level 2 of C...6 months ago
-
Consolidated AD&D Weapon Characteristics List - Having spent the last few days down a research rabbit hole, I ended up compiling a chart of AD&D weapon characteristics, adding some "missing" entries an...6 months ago
-
Referee Sabotage - It is an old saw that players are bad at executing their plans. Imagine this common scene: the party have some big job that requires planning; perhaps robb...7 months ago
-
Divine Patronage: A Separate System for Party Advancement - In the past, I've written about why parties should have their own character sheet. The party sheet can track reputation, how noisy they are in the dungeon...7 months ago
-
Mapping the pre D&D Dungeon Adventure From May 25 1972, Part 1 - Earlier (Here) we looked at the oldest dungeon dive preserved in Arneson's write up as found in *Blackmoor Foundations*. Turning now to the second dunge...8 months ago
-
On a Happy New Year - We are about to experience the most social upheaval since industrialization. What will that look like in sixty years? Sinless is starting it's third yea...9 months ago
-
-
-
Rob Kuntz at Lucca Comics & Games 2025 - If you are planning a trip to Europe (like right now) and wish to catch up with me in person, make sure to book a detour via *Lucca Comics & Games*, ...1 year ago
-
How do you do piracy… in SPACE!? - Interstellar space travel in Iridium Moons was always going to be a form of hyperspace jump like in Star Wars or Traveller. Simply because it’s the one for...1 year ago
-
A long overdue hobby update! - Welcome back to the Vault everyone! 2025 is going by in a blur; I last posted in February, almost started a post in March and now it's the end of May. W...1 year ago
-
Playing at the World 2E V2 Arrives - With the release of its second volume, the second edition of *Playing at the World *is finally complete. The two books combined total well over 1,000 ...1 year ago
-
Lexicon of Klarkash-Ton, Hierophant of Atlantis: Lupanar - This time, we follow the good High Priest to the far future, to the final continent of Earth, Zothique, for a a tale of ennui and love: Morthylla. Witho...1 year ago
-
Writing playlists for all occasions - Hello again! Going off the idea of inspiration elaborated on by the prior post, I also have music playing while I write my various games and fiction pieces...1 year ago
-
The Tarot of Pips - Somewhere in your dice collection is a die like this one, the humblest of dice. Although you don't know it, this small white die carries with it a secr...1 year ago
-
Pirates and Necromancers, a Play Report - Over the Thanksgiving weekend we did a lot of gaming ranging from “off-table” domain level stuff to some solo adventures to spell and magic item rese...1 year ago
-
*'s in SpaaaaaAaaaace - A lot of SF (including a certain 2D6 RPG grandaddy) deal with ancient aliens taking humans from Earth and dropping them, fleas and all, on one or more w...2 years ago
-
Last move - to self-hosting! - As my vote regarding Substack in the “marketplace of ideas”, I’m moving to self-hosting. I’m now at (and hopefully staying for a long time at) Blog: ht...2 years ago
-
Osamu Tezuka (1928 - 1989) - [image: Osamu Tezuka - Shonen Magazine Cover, 1970]Shonen Magazine Cover, 1970 [image: Osamu Tezuka - Shonen Magazine Cover Illustration 1970]Shonen Maga...4 years ago
-
Clean Your Room - Looking back at my little blog here. That last post… wow, I was having fun playing WOW Classic! That was August of 1999 and I was having a blast… it was ...4 years ago
-
The Worm Ouroboros - The Worm Ouroboros is a proto-fantasy (the in the genre sense) novel by E. R. Eddison, originally published in 1922. It is an amalgam of mythological tradi...5 years ago
-
-
Steve Jackson Interview - James Maliszewski recently did an interview with Steve Jackson over on his Grognardia blog. Steve chats about the beginnings of The Fantasy Trip and upcomi...6 years ago
-
The Hero’s Journey 2nd Edition, Campbellian roleplaying at its best! - (this review done using the reviewers own purchased copy) I have been a James Michael Spahn fan since he wrote his Swords & Wizardry Companion. His writing...6 years ago
-
ToAD Monster of the Week: Crocoman - Now that I'm back doing the blog thing I thought I would use Tome of Adventure Design to create monsters for The Black Hack. Using the monster tables in th...6 years ago
-
OCHRE SAND - Init +0 Ranged Atk • fire burst +3 (1d14+1, 20') AC 17 HD 3d6 MV 60 Act 1d24 SP 'breath' weapon, sideslip, perfect silence, morphing Fort +5 Ref +8 Will...6 years ago
-
Strange, Dangerous, and Inhuman: The Fey and Fairie - When I was a boy I loved fairy tales. Jack and the Beanstalk, Puss in Boots, Rumpelstiltskin - I devoured all of it. My fascination that there was a strang...6 years ago
-
The Faithful - An Optional Archetype for Sharp Swords & Sinister Spells Revised Edition - Work on the revised edition of Sharp Swords & Sinister Spells is moving along. This will be a hefty tome, with a LOT of tools and new options to customiz...6 years ago
-
Dungeons & Dragonmead Fall Schedule - *As you know, I run public classic Dungeons & Dragons games at **The Loaded Die**/Metro Detroit Game Night's Board Game Nigh at **Dragonmead**, in Warren...7 years ago
-
Fiction in Airhde - On a whim this weekend, I picked up some fiction off the TLG store. *A Houseless God & Other Tales* and *The Mirrored Soul & Other Tales*, both by the T...7 years ago
-
-
Ravensburg Reboot: Streamlined City Map - I mentioned in my last post how I was tweaking and reworking parts of my Ravensburg setting. Today I streamlined the city map. The old map had lots of redu...7 years ago
-
The Withered Crag available now - I just enabled the sale of the PDF version of The Withered Crag at DriveThruRPG a few minutes ago, and the custom print version will be available startin...7 years ago
-
Annihilation Rising Goes live - The latest in Fail Squad Games’ Quick Kick projects has gone live and needs your support!! This project is only running 11 days and ends on 5/28/2019! ...7 years ago
-
James's Celebration of Life - We could not have asked for a prettier day for James's service. It was a bit chilly and windy but gorgeous. A heartfelt thank you to all that joined us tod...7 years ago
-
Trap Tuesday: A step back - I will get back to Tomb of Horrors soon. I found a topic that was interesting enough to take a break. While interacting in a 5E group on Facebook I talked ...7 years ago
-
Let's Talk About Pacing! - The idea, I think, is that the RPG is ultimately about the long game. Even rolling back to the early days of Basic & Expert, the goal of the player was...7 years ago
-
Profane and Profound Prep Part 2 - This is part 2 of my work to edit my magic items for a DMsGuild release, along with adding cursed items along the way. Here is part 1. Bone of a Saint 8000...7 years ago
-
MIDDLE DUNGEONS LEVEL FIVE 158 STAIRS. - 158 STAIRS. These stairs descend thirty feet to Area 79 on Level 6.7 years ago
-
Please, I don't do paid advertisements - don't ask. - A little note since people have asked me about this. My video channel's *not* an advertising platform, so I'm not available for hire if you want to promote...7 years ago
-
New website! - Slowly but surely, all the content here will make its way — in updated form! — to my new website: timbannock.com. For fairly obvious reasons, that site wil...7 years ago
-
Please Update Your Link! - If you're seeing this, it means your link to the Greyhawk Grognard blog is out of date. Please update your link to www.greyhawkgrognard.com (RSS feed is h...7 years ago
-
Total Sales for WB:FMAG - Hi Folks, It's been a long time since I provided an update for the sales of White Box: Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game. *LULU* Print: 396 PDF: 433 *OBS*...8 years ago
-
How can We Destroy this Campaign World? - d12 1. You must trick a bard into strumming the *Chords of Fate* on the *Lute of Annihilation* 2. Legends tell of thermonuclear weapons beneath megadunge...8 years ago
-
Mord Mar - Session 5 - We had another successful delve into the dungeon yesterday. The delvers: Moira, the Magic-User Radovan - Human Cleric (of Odin?) Khazgar Stonehand - Dwarf ...8 years ago
-
Yodeling For Yokels or The Further Misa(d&)dventures - This is the one of those posts that points out the lack of current posts. Over the last week or three, there has been postponed Labyrinth Lord (twice, one...8 years ago
-
Bundle of Fantasy Age - Bundle of Holding: Dragon Age/Fantasy Age: Available until March 12. PA Presents: Fantasy AGE Freeport live play Green Ronin in 2018 The Fantasy Age RPG ma...8 years ago
-
New Free PDF Module: The Hyqueous Vaults - A new dungeon module—written in celebration of OSRIC's 10th Birthday—by Rebecca Dettmann, Allan T. Grohe, Jr., Jimm Johnson, Matthew Riedel, Alex Zisch, a...8 years ago
-
Session XCIII: One Pissed Off Dragon! - Our ongoing Swords and Wizardry sandbox campaign... *Current Player Characters:* *Thenus* (Ranger) *Wang Du* (Monk) *Wolfheir* (Viking) *Arg* (Half-orc) ...9 years ago
-
Swords & Wizardry Light: Session # 6 - Two months after our last session (thanks to things like 8th grade finals, a 4 year-old's birthday and party, Father's Day, etc.), we finally had our next ...9 years ago
From reading this and the Kickstarter TOS, the intent seems (to me) to be that the project creator agrees to enter into a contract with the backers to deliver. If they do not, the backers have whatever legal recourse they can muster /against the project creator/. Kickstarter is at pains to assert that they are not/can not be involved in any such proceedings. So I guess that's the source of the seeming "must deliver/might deliver" dichotomy their wording produces.
ReplyDeleteI take all this to mean that the backers are basically left high-and-dry unless they are attorneys with some knowledge of contract law, or care to retain the services of same.
@ScrivenerB - yep, balls in the court of the backers. Get a lawyer or go home, Kickstarter is not part of the process
ReplyDeletePerhaps they need a talent pool section so artists, writers, editors even publishers can collab or source people to help finish. Im very experienced at rushjobs from running a magazine for 3 years and i know my limits. Im watching all this keenly as i hope to make a modest $500-$1000 dollar DnD variant zine format but ill wait till all ready to go and i have a screen made for covers and t-shirts - i also plan to bomb the world wide zine scene as 70s DnD was kinda zine like. If that goes well ill try something fancier.
ReplyDeleteAs an artist im being invited to do free work or get offers of shares of non existent profits for other peoples dreams with no hope of success by clueless dreamers. A friend who did Dragonscarpe book has to deal with over editorializing (ruined text and constant pressure to do huge boobs, unnecessary revision of franchise to piss off the few fans). He is the only experienced person but the backer keeps meddling. Book is pretty but unreadable.