Aldo Ghiozzi made an eye opening comment on today's earlier post about Free RPG Day, as I always assumed it was about growing the hobby. I was wrong, and certainly not the first time.
The issue isn't just growing the hobby, but getting feet into the FLGS. I'm as guilty as many, as most of my purchases are made from either OneBookShelf or Amazon when it comes to my gaming needs.
So, how does one get low cost or free marketing that will be seen outside the hobby for Free RPG Day? Maybe a poster or 2 per box for advertising the next year's Free RPG Day? Retailers now have their advertising material a year in advance (and it's probably much more effective than flyers at the door that no one reads or are placed in bags that are quickly thrown out)
Aint It Cool and the Escapist would probably run articles for free. Their audience is far larger than just the geeks that habitually play RPGs and are more likely to spark the interest of lapsed gamers.
I'm sure there are blogs and sites like ENWorld that would post about it in the weeks or months prior if they were given details about the releases to be included in the Free RPG Day release. To be honest, I only knew it was this weekend because I realized June was halfway over and it's usually in June, so I did a Google search.
Is there a Facebook group where gamers can talk about Free RPG Day releases, invite their online friends to check it out and basically pimp the potential awesome of Free RPG Day?
Any thoughts from the ranks of the Taverners?
I think if you want to grow the hobby new players need easy access to groups. A better way to grow the hobby would be a national day that we all run games at a FLGS that is open to new players. Eve if it is just combat arenas or simple dungeons. Something that interested folks could stop in and play. My FLGS will get my foot traffic so I can get the DCC product and any C&C product but they actually don't sell those games so I never really shop there.
ReplyDeleteThe answer to your problem there is to demand that your gaming store sell that product. Tell them, up front, that you would prefer to shop at their store, but they don't carry your preferred came and you can't always wait for special orders. Ask them, specifically, to carry DCC and C&C (and Amazing Adventures, of course) ;). You might be surprised.
DeleteAnd of course, that should read, "they don't carry your preferred GAME."
DeleteDemanding a gaming store to carry product is not the way to go. You will be told to pound sand. They typically will carry product that sells more so than anything else. Overhead is not good especially to a gaming store.
DeleteSee the DCC RPG G+ group to see growing the industry at work.
ReplyDeleteTwo years ago I worked to make Free RPG Day a celebration of gaming. The plan was to make a day convention out of it. We had the community center lined up, had some support for food and drink, even had some local and regional media coverage lined up. Everything looked like the day was going to be a success. The idea was to celebrate the hobby and give away some product.
ReplyDeleteWhen we reached out to the Free RPG Day folks about how to get boxes we were told that we had to be a retailer to get the boxes. We struggled to find a retailer to support us and failed. As a result we lost DM support, Basically the whole thing fell through.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is if Free RPG Day is about growing the hobby, it should be less about the retailers and more about the players.
^this. Both my current city and the last place I've lived have had RPG enthusiast groups that have done way more to grow the hobby than any store around did. Despite having a dozen stores here in Louisville, the local game events tend to happen at bars, because the bars are more into it than the stores. We had the money to buy a box of Free RPG Day product, and we would have made it a huge event, and got a bunch more people into the hobby, but the game stores around here weren't willing to do it so we couldn't have an event.
DeleteThe biggest problem with the kits is that there are not a significant amount of freebies donated. Free Comic Book Day has like 3,000,000 items donated and FRD is under 100,000.
DeleteThe other problem with gaming groups like you mentioned above is policing them. The second you say its open to groups of gamers is the second every gaming group wants a kit...and we don't have enough even for the retailers to sign up...and how does gamer groups get new people? It's the same problem; you're giving the material to the already converted. Game stores are a safe place for newcomers to play. Coupled with that, you would have a massive shift of the event encouraging gamers to stay at home.
Hard to believe the retailers couldn't see the benefit of supporting you. How would letting you buy a kit of materials through them hurt them? Think they'd like the opportunity to get some sort of sponsor credit, particularly if you had media coverage.
DeleteIf the retailers are too short-sighted to try to grow the hobby, it'll be their own fault when they close.
Both the gamer groups I've been involved with here in Kentucky make special efforts to recruit new people. Nerd Louisville has events every two weeks, and at every single one of those events so far there have been people who have never roleplayed before. The large number of people I know who have expressed interest in learning to play say they find the idea of going to a store for their first experience really intimidating.
DeleteSo when you say supporting independent gamer groups would be giving it to the already converted, and game stores are safe places for newcomers to play, my personal experience has been the exact opposite.
I would blog about it on my personal blog Omens and Portents if Aldo gave me a press release ahead of time. It's probably not appropriate for Mischief, Inc. to blog about it unless we are participating, which we cannot (see previous blog posting about FRD for why).
ReplyDeleteUltimately we want to see RPGs grow as a hobby and in particular OSR, specifically AD&D. Pushing FRD as a community seems like a great way of doing that, and there are other ways we should be trying as well.
Man, we do send out a press release twice a year to a giant list of media outlets and most rarely run it. The first is right after FRD and the second is announcing the date for the next year (which is always the third Saturday in June).
DeleteI think it's pointless to get feet into the stores for Free RPG Day until more stores participate. Here in Louisville KY, we have around a dozen game stores. Exactly 0 of them are participating in Free RPG Day.
ReplyDeleteWhen I lived in Lexington, KY, there were about five game stores. Exactly one of them participated, and that was because I worked there. That store went out of business and then there were none.
Of the stores that I actually talked to about it, the reason for their non-participation was the same: it's too expensive, and we don't get anything out of it for our money.
There are certainly stores out there that love it, and do it right, but those stores a very few and far between. So I think "getting feet in the stores" is putting the cart before the horse. Get the stores excited about participating, and they'll get the feet in their stores.
Oh Dieter, I'm going to make you buy me a drink at Gen Con to talk in more detail about all of this! :)
DeleteThe reason most stores don't participate in FRD is because Magic: The Gathering is 80% of most stores business and the other 20% is heavily because of board games and drinks. RPGs are such a tiny part of a game store's revenue (and the industry as a whole) so most stores think the $95 to participate is too much since they carry some D&D and Pathfinder core books and nothing else. Stores like that definitely shouldn't participate in the event.
You nailed it, Aldo. I still need to get a copy of that C&C/AA adventure. It's just comes down to how far am I willing to drive for it.
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DeleteGet the unemployed person to buy you a drink? Ha, good luck with that. ;)
DeleteThere is no specific group but there is "Business" page (https://www.facebook.com/FreeRPGDay/?fref=ts ). They could create an event and/or start their own "Fan group" to go with. (We did such with Grand Con to support their business page.) Heck anyone of us could do it this evening ... :) (Same for a G+ community FWIW.) Volunteers?
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think it's important to consider that a lot of game retailers simply do not have the space to make an event of it and have multiple people running games in their space. Even if they wanted to, they physically couldn't.
ReplyDeleteLast year I went to two stores that participated. I spent $20-30 at each store on things I really didn't want to show my gratitude. I'll do the same this year.
ReplyDeleteBut hopefully they will have something I like better this year.
DeleteI know it's counter to the stated intent but the Open Gaming store (www.opengamingstore.com) will be having a sweet deal for Free RPG Day. Details to be included in the Open Gaming Newsletter. Full disclosure, I own the Open Gaming Store.
ReplyDeleteI know it's counter to the stated intent but the Open Gaming store (www.opengamingstore.com) will be having a sweet deal for Free RPG Day. Details to be included in the Open Gaming Newsletter. Full disclosure, I own the Open Gaming Store.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to help a group grow, you can't just have events in the place the people in the group already go to and those outside the group can't find interest to attend. Giving away stuff at your FLGS is great but doesn't grow the hobby. Running demos in places where non-gamers are (bars, bookstores, summer carnivals, etc) is much more likely to inspire interest in role playing games -- partly because its being done where non-gamers are but where they might be open to new things.
ReplyDeletejeffx and Dieter are on the right track. It would make sense for a FLGS to sponsor the events but less for them to have the event at their stores.
Honestly? If its about getting me into a FLGS to buy stuff, they either have to stock it well AND give me reasons to keep showing up there, or compete on price.
ReplyDeleteBecause at one point, 2 decades ago I was a big FLGS fan and supporter. But that changed, not because of the internet, but because of bad treatment from FLGS. Internet gave me freedom to cut that cord.
If they want me back, they need to provide something I cant get from the internet. And thats quite a bit.
I totally agree. Let me set aside the cost of RPG products for a second. The cost of board games themselves are to the point where the middle income class of customers simply cannot afford them. The average board game is costing nearly 80.00 to 90.00 a pop. Why would one want to purchase these games at a gaming store when they can purchase them online at 30% to 40% off??? Why would a gaming store purchase these games when they are doing nothing but adding to the overhead costs??? I have a subscription through Paizo for my RPG needs because they offer a great discount through that service. I will go through Kickstarter for my other RPG needs because I am getting a better deal there instead of the gaming store who may or may not carry that item in question. Online is the way to go to purchase the stuff.
DeleteEvery year we send reminders to the distributors trying to get their sales staff to use FRD as a way to sell to their retailers...to remind those retailers to stock up on the product related to FRD. I honestly don't know how much of that happens because distributors are not allowed to give us sales data.
DeleteThat makes no sense. Why should a gaming store stock up on items that simply do NOT sell. It is overhead that gaming stores cannot afford to keep on their shelves for years. If you think that free product within the kits brings in new gamers and then they spend more money on product, you are mistaken.
DeleteTo be honest, CoC is not popular and it rarely sells. DCC RPG is not really popular and it rarely sells. The same with 13th Age and S&W. Pathfinder sells. D&D 5th Edition sells. Get a hint?
Carmen, they cannot compete on price not with Amazon. I support my FLGS because, without it, there is no gaming community and without the community? I have no reason to buy books to begin with. YMMV. But bad treatment? Yeah, that will get me out of a store in a heartbeat. We have a FANTASTIC store locally (Dungeon Games, Estero, FL) and they are all about their community. We are lucky that way.
ReplyDeleteOver as the Sanctum Podcast we've begun assembling a list of DCC Road Crew judges running events for Free RPG Day and where to find them worldwide (http://sanctum.media/blog/index.php/2016/06/15/free-rpg-day/). It is a small effort, and also a rather last minute one, but last year in Estero we had gamers who drove in from Miami to play games and buy stuff.
Supporting the FLGS is supporting the lifeblood of gaming. Running open table games is a great way to get people in and coming back.
"Supporting the FLGS is supporting the lifeblood of gaming. Running open table games is a great way to get people in and coming back."
DeleteWhat are you basing this statement on???
Are you at all familiar with Dungeon Crawl Classics (DCC RPG)? I joined their Road Crew a few years back. The whole idea is to run DCC in brick-and-mortar stores. By the time I ran my 4th game in a FLGS, I had reached my 8-player max...and later held regular games with 11-12 repeat players.
DeleteSo, just going out on a lark here...I'm gonna guess this was something of a basis for the above claim. Real experience, and fostering the local RPG community.
Are you at all familiar with Dungeon Crawl Classics (DCC RPG)? I joined their Road Crew a few years back. The whole idea is to run DCC in brick-and-mortar stores. By the time I ran my 4th game in a FLGS, I had reached my 8-player max...and later held regular games with 11-12 repeat players.
DeleteSo, just going out on a lark here...I'm gonna guess this was something of a basis for the above claim. Real experience, and fostering the local RPG community.
I have a friend who runs a gaming store here in Connecticut. We are celebrating Free RPG day tomorrow with demo sessions and give aways (I think). The store has been fairly successful with other gaming related novelty items that support all tastes. What I want to say is, without the overhead, there is no game store. Rent is brutal and most store owners have to resort to selling "Flat Crack" (Magic Cards) to stay afloat. Sure, I buy stuff from Amazon and I am not ashamed of it, but I also like the idea of a FLGS to go and look at games up close, play in a demo of a game to see if I like it. Kinda hard to play in a game through Amazon... sure you can go on YouTube or Twitch to watch games in action, but you still can't get the feeling of a game until you have played it in person. I will agree that the prices of board games is ridiculous. $60.00 for an average RPG book seems like crazy talk, but I pay it because I love the hobby. FLGS also offer the ability to create a community, offer said demos, and give you a place to feel at home. Even if you buy your games through an online source, go you your store, create a relationship with the staff, and offer to run games. We cannot grow the hobby by bitching about it. My 2 Centavos
DeleteI think you need an easy to learn self-contained board game that acts as a taste, to get newbies to play. I don't see how that sort of thing can be free so I don't see how the fee rpg day can grow the hobby.
ReplyDeleteThis is because most RPGs require others to show the ropes still. It's rare to have a group of newbies start from scratch.
I agree that the stores themselves are part of the problem when it comes to the failure of FRPG day. Combine that with a very poor PR campaign to spread awareness and you have a whole lot of Meh as a result.
ReplyDeleteI live in Lansdale outside Philadelphia and there are several decent gaming and comic book/gaming stores nearby. However, most of them do not do anything for the day. There is only store in Philly proper that participates, but I usually can't take the train into the city to get there. Three years ago there were 3 locations within a 20 minute drive so I could take my kids to play a game, but this year there is only one - the King of Prussia branch of the Compleat Strategist. I may stop by, but only because I want to see the free swag. Last year, we made a special trip to get into a game there and there was no one willing to run a game for us. There were only about 5 people there playing the D&D adventure, and we were not invited to play. No effort to encourage the children who were looking forward to playing with strangers. We were pointed at the swag table and told to take one item each.
The only thing more disappointing was when I took my 9 year old son to the newly opened Uncanny comic/gaming store in the local mall so we could participate in the weekly D&D Adventurer's League. Again,we were both excited about meeting new players, and I was looking forward to being a player... Then we were told that in order to play in an advertised free program,we had to spend $5 each in the store for the privilege of sitting at the table, and that would be mandatory each week. Needless to say, I was not going to pay to play a free game and I gave the store a piece of my mind and walked out.
So, what we need is the gaming stores to be willing to properly support and advertise the programs that will get boots in the door. It seems that most of the newer stores are reliant upon impulse sales after their comic book inventory brings someone in, but the staff don't know gaming. And the older stores that I have been in seem to already have their clientele established, so they may feel that they don't need to make any effort because the owners believe that the store will die when they do. I admit that I have limited exposure but that is the vibe I have been getting in the past couple of years. So when the FLGS doesn't have confidence in the industry that is responsible for their existence, why would anyone want to visit?
"Combine that with a very poor PR campaign to spread awareness and you have a whole lot of Meh as a result."
DeleteI mentioned it above, but wanted to reiterate...we do PR, but again, we're a small company and all these places that cover Free Comic Book Day don't cover FRD when we send them information. Heck, I reach out to my local newspaper saying "Visit this game store to see FRD and meet the creator..." Nothing for ten years.
I agree with some of the posters above. As compared to Free Comic Book Day, Free RPG Day needs to have more of an event feel, since what you're selling IS an event...playing the game. It doesn't seem too difficult for someone to spend a half hour in a store on FCBD and get a small sense of the hobby. Half an hour on FRPGD doesn't seem like it'd do much. It needs more participation.
ReplyDeleteI completely understand that stores don't see much value in participating. On a sort-of-related note, I wasn't around for the beginning of the hobby, but I have a hard time understanding how any game store could have ever survived on RPGs, anyway. Seems like a tough gig without CCGs and sprawling miniatures games to help the bottom line (and a tough enough gig WITH them).
There are quite a few gaming stores that survive quite well without having to resort to the CCG community. Some of these gaming stores supplement their income through comics. Some of these gaming stores cater to other genres of gamers. Unfortunately, the concept of Free RPG Day is not totally free.
DeleteIt may be that "not totally free" aspect that's the biggest hurdle in this whole thing then. The game stores who do have a chance to pull in some comic readers, or Warhammer fans, or Munchkin players, seem like the exact stores that would benefit most from an effective RPG promotion.
DeleteWe've always admitted that FRD costs retailers money...and that's because the participating publishers pay for the freebies and our company charges stores pretty much what it costs to collate, get custom boxes, ship and market the event. $95 covers a kit with about 140 items in it this year.
DeleteIt became pointless to go to the stores almost from day one. Store owners did not understand the free part - instantly creating animosity.
ReplyDeleteRetailers are required to have at least one item available for free for anyone...its in their agreement when they sign up...If there is a store that violates that, please let me know.
Deletealdo@impressionsadv.net
I know local stores found it cost prohibitive, and didn't do much to drive sales (especially since many of the free games for were products not actually stocked locally, or primarily available online). No one's participated locally in at least 2 years. And of course, unfortunately, free comic book day is a huge hit locally for contrast.
ReplyDelete(I don't mean its unfortunate that Free Comic Book Day is a hit, but rather that it's unfortunate that Free RPG Day can't match it).
Deletewell make some generic gaming supplies for free. Posting for games, hobby stores that let you play there (vs MTG taking up every table everyday), Adverts that WE can print out and hand out at schools etc. A publicly accessible chip-in for ad campaign year round. Become a gamer enabler and encourage gamers to create fun not just consume it.
ReplyDeleteThe shop I've visited for the last 2 years is a great little shop. However, the free RPG items have almost no crossover with the games they sell in the store. To be honest I think some of the OSR/Indie publishers would be better off doing an at cost POD module/quick start book once per year instead.
ReplyDeletePeter, I guess it depends on the store. My FLGS carries OSR books and supplements. That's where I bought my second Labyrinth Lords screen and bought my AD&D reprints (along with some LotFP goodies). I also try and supplement the Free stuff with items from my own publishing house. My biggest issue with FRPGD is that no one friggin shows up. Tomorrow we will have a full house of GMS and we will all end up playing in our own games. It happens every year. We get a few stragglers who are just interested in getting their freebie and hitting the road. I feel in order to get a game, the store needs to enforce a play in a demo and get a game. I know that sounds pretty douchey, but it would perhaps get more people interested.
DeleteThe conundrum of how best to draw more people into the roleplaying game hobby has many facets, as folks here have already pointed out. Having a board game that offers an RPG-like experience like Dungeon!, Hero Quest, or Massive Darkness seems to offer a great tool for established gamers to attract newcomers to demonstrations, but they’re a bit beyond newcomers in terms of price and availability. Long ago West End Games printed a brochure (Mos Eisley Shoot-Out) that was half promo sheet and half game; it offered brief rules (mostly combat-oriented), a map, and pieces to cut out and use. It was a simple game experience in a low-cost format to give away at conventions or send in the post (alas, it came just as WEG filed for bankruptcy in 1998...). Could the OSR community band together to devise something similar? A simple dungeon map and character cards with streamlined rules? Something to print on an 11x17 sheet and folded? Available for PDF download? With some promotional information about where to find some OSR RPG resources free online? Whether one distributes it through the Free RPG Day channel (with all its FLGS concerns) or community members could use it as a tool and giveaway on their own remains open for debate.
ReplyDeleteThis this this! I love this idea. You could even have a dungeon that's a series of 80x80 (or 40x40) rooms so all the combat could happen on a chess/checkerboard. (WEG did that with another of their quick-start-type thingees.)
DeleteThe problem (and what it has turned into) has everything to do with the name, Free RPG Day. Horrible name for growing hobby. Great name to attract freeloaders, ebayers, and people who already know what's up.
ReplyDeletePlay Today, Learn to Play Day, RPG 101, tons of other better names. Leaving RPG out the title and having it vague makes people wonder and ask "play what?" "learn what" and search out answers themselves.
>> I'm as guilty as many, as most of my purchases are made ...
People who care about growing hobby, should buy something every time the run/play a game at a game store. Even if more expensive than online, maybe just dice to give to new player after first session.
FRD has a Facebook page of a little over 10,000 followers and a Twitter with under 3,000...not a lot of reach in the grand scheme of the social media sphere.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Free RPG Day can work on the same model to Free Comic Book Day since the experiences of the media are so different. On FCBD a person can be intrigued by the sign, stop into the store, pick up a handful of comics and wither leave or stay to look around. A comic takes between 5-15 minutes to read and can be produced in self-contained chunks that cost 4$ at retail. RPGs on the other hand usually require several hours with a group of people to really start to sing. The biggest publisher involved in FRPG day isn't even offering quickstart rules. (Although they have an online SRD.)
ReplyDeletePessimism aside, I do remember that it took a while for FCBD to get it's act together. I heard a lot of stories about retailers charging for books or simply not supporting it at all. Now it's a pretty big success so perhaps there's hope for my other favorite hobby's version. At the game store I frequent (The Brooklyn Strategist) they're filling tables with various games run by both volunteers and employees. It's a pretty popular boardgame club on a street with a lot of foot traffic so I'm hoping things go well for them.
I couldn't agree more. Comics are a consumable. Games require the user's input, and even planning, even if it's only 'get some friends together'.
DeleteAs mentioned already, it doesn't help that the free stuff for Free RPG day is not necessarily stuff the store carries. A 'free game day' might work in a library or some other venue where people can come a familiar environment and play a game and maybe get some sort of 'quickstart' rule set and dice to take home. But that does not do a lot for the FLGS... and given that FLGS tend to have alreadt found their niche, even if it is CCG/CMG or board games, I don't see much motive for them to participate.
You could have new maps released occasionally so that the board game never got dull.
ReplyDeleteI think it's misguided to believe that the fate of the hobby depends on brick-and-mortar stores. If anything, we've seen that the hobby is thriving most in the online space. That's where all the great discussion and most of the innovation is happening. The FLGS is a dinosaur and is totally unnecessary to keep the hobby afloat.
ReplyDeleteIs it really thriving? Most people I know have trouble finding groups that stay together and have consistent membership regardless of whether they are face-to-face or online.
DeleteExtended campaign play is only the most hardcore version of roleplaying. If you want the biggest audience, you need to require the smallest buy-in. One-shots, open tables and casual boardgame hybrid play are the best way to get people playing. I don't play online, but I see plenty of people recruiting for online one-shots or drop-in games. However, I've had way more conversations about gaming and learned more about different games and gaming styles online than I ever did in person and I never made any gaming contacts by browsing in the FLGS.
DeleteAldo,
ReplyDeleteI just want to say thank you. If my earlier comment was interpreted as anything other than constructive criticism, I apologize. That wasn't the intention. I can't even begin to comprehend all the things you have to deal with running this event. I hope you keep up the fight.
Since I posted that, I've talked to some of the people who helped me the last time. Our FLGS scene has changed significantly since then and we might try it again next year.
Why not create an event where people who already play bring a friend to a "game day" where there will be GMs for nearly every RPG carried by the venue. Upon arrival the "new gamer" registers and lists who (including that persons # obtained from a pre-registration) brought them. Then if the "new gamer" has never registered for any prior "game days", then they will be given a free player's guide to any RPG of their choice, and the person that brings them will get a gift certificate for the venue to be used on/toward any RPG item(s) at the venue.
ReplyDeleteThe increase in the number of RPG players from year to year will make up in long term sales far more than the stores will lose sponsoring the events.
Love free rpgday. I think I've rum games for every single one of them. Never skipped one. The traction is building. This year we have more DMS at two stores than ever before. I see it working in our area. Keep on keeping on.
ReplyDeleteOh, my two cents? Have stuff exclusive to DMs who run on the day. A miniature or a die or some neat thing.
ReplyDeleteMy local FLGS reserves the Q Workshop dice for GMs running games on the day- bless 'em.
DeleteMaybe if instead of just posting pictures of the free stuff they picked up today, people could include what they also bought while at the store?
ReplyDeleteAlso, as people have said before - run games at the store on the day.
I wonder if a resource to tap here might be maker spaces. There may not be that many of them now, but there are growing number of "collectives" that support a shared maker space out there. The Venn diagram of people into maker spaces and people into rpgs intersects but they are not equivalent. Seems like a maker space might be interested in hosting an event on Free RPG day because it might introduce RPG players to the maker movement, while it would also expose a good number of non-rpg people to it in a sympathetic way.
ReplyDelete