Hello, my name is Pexx as I wear many hats, but I mainly hang my hats in Tenkar's Tavern Discord and run a lot of the behind the scenes activities that go on there. My tag on the server is the Tavern Custodian because I fix things that break and take care of the little things that need working on.
So I recently I got banned from the OSR Discord server, that some of you are a part of. Let me give you some history before I got banned with direct interaction with one of their moderator James Young.
So I recently I got banned from the OSR Discord server, that some of you are a part of. Let me give you some history before I got banned with direct interaction with one of their moderator James Young.
Once upon a time I tried to get Tenkar’s Tavern Blog submitted to their pinned blog roll list that we also have pinned here in Tenkar’s Tavern back when the Google+ Shut down was announced and people were flooding into Tenkar’s Tavern Discord and the OSR Discord. I followed the instructions, but it kept getting removed. I messaged the server owner Chris McDowall to clear up the confusion.
The Blog List: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10qvE1s62UA55pleTW54RAZZw-oJQV8yYGZb_UtYo9TE/edit#gid=0
Here’s what he had to say…
Next up is my first interaction with James Young:
So not only did he lie to me my very first time talking to him, but he let his biased opinion dribble onto me to me from the get go. I honestly didn’t care, sure you can dislike someone, but why lie about it?
So that was back in October 2018. Jumping forward I didn’t really have any more interaction with him until recently when I noticed one of my servers was missing. For those of you that don’t, know when you kick or ban someone you can provide a message to the individual when you perform the action. Parting words if you will or a reason as to why you got banned or kick. There was none of that. Didn’t think much of it, I simply rejoined the OSR server.
Happened again the next day. Ok someone is screwing with me so like a good little soldier I re-joined yet again, but I wanted some answers so I messaged 2 moderators ( Xsi & Cavegirl) followed by the server owner Chris McDowall.
Xsi had this to say….
I did not receive an answer back from Xsi before James Young messaged me that he was banning me.
Cavegirl had this to say....
Another lie, there is an audit log! I’ll give Cavegirl the benefit of the doubt here, Chris may have restricted that part of the server to his mod team for whatever reason. The audit log does exist on every single Discord server, and you can view any changes (including bans and kicks) and it tells you who has done the action.
Next up Chris McDowall the server owner was messaged.
Several hrs later I get a message from Mr. James Young stating the following…
So because it was funny and he thinks I am worthless not only his community, but all others.
Thanks James! You sir, are a class act.
I forwarded James message onto Chris McDowall our server owner just before James Young got the ban off severing my contact with anyone on the OSR server unless they were on my friends list (I sent friend request to Xsi, Cavegirl, and Chris in hopes of resolving this). Mr. McDowall has been informed about James Young actions. I dunno if he will unban me and let me back into his Discord or not. It’s his server, and he can do with it what he wants to.
So what did I post over there you may be wondering? Pretty much in the link section when people from our Tenkar’s Tavern server had a kickstarter, product launch, podcast come out (including my own) I would drop a link in their OSR link section. That was pretty much it. Just sad I won’t be able to do so any longer. It’s hard enough to try and advertise on your own all I was doing was attempting to spread the word about good content for the OSR.
I have no regrets standing beside Tenkar, and I do so proudly. If that comes with me not being able to associate with certain circles within our small niche of the gaming the industry so be it. We are doing great things in The Tavern and we have even more great things in the works for everyone.
**How do I get to The Tavern Discord? Follow these Steps:**
**Step 1.)** Go here https://discordapp.com/download
**Step 2.)** Click which is best for you Windows, Mac, Android, IOS, or Linux and download it.
**Step 3.)** Once it has finished downloading click the + button surrounded by a dotted circle on the left hand side
**Step 4.)** Click the Join a Server button and copy and paste this into it https://discord.gg/GaXW2TX
There's only thing that's gonna kill the OSR faster than the world at large obliviously ignoring us, and that's us, maliciously ignoring each other.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. That's why the OSR discord has prioritised inclusivity to such a degree.
DeleteRight. So, they are inclusive by being exclusive. I think I follow.
DeleteThe Tenkar's Tavern Discord Server is NOT exclusive. We DO NOT deny folks entry based on political beliefs, race, gender identity, religion or the like. Actually, none of the above comes into the equation. We serve tabletop RPG gamers. That is who we identify with. We restrict discussion that is non gaming / non geek in nature.
Well, I guess I don't need to join the OSR Discord server. Admins like that repel me from whatever they're the overlords of.
ReplyDeleteYep, I'm not big Discord user full stop but that sort of behaviour has ended my interest in that particular server.
ReplyDeleteThe parties involved come off as pretty lame. Is the OSR discord a big deal because its smaller then tenkars discord so I have to say its influence is less in the OSR community. the only thing notable I see about Chris is a patreon from 2015, is he just another blogger? James is just an moderator who tried to start reviewing movies and stopped at one point so I guess he feels pretty good with being able to ban people for laughs which is childish. Over all "small time feud between moderators over personal opinions and lulz" makes a lame headline but is more accurate breakdown of the situation.
ReplyDeleteOh I did some digging, chris and Eric are Facebook friends, James and Stacy Dellorfano are facebook friends as well. The big boss's could have just rung each other up and taken care of this. James could be a little less transparent about his bias as well. OH WELL DRAMMMAAA
Delete@deep throat They are smaller, but only about 100 or so folks behind Tenkar's to be fair. We are both fairly large by OSR type Discords to be fair.
DeleteDidn't realize I had Chris as a FB friend. I have 2148 - er, now 2147 ;)
DeleteSeriously, I do not track FB friends that I do not interact with directly and I don't recall interacting with Chris.
OSR content creator here....the biggest problem in the OSR is made abundantly clear in Mr. Young's last message. Apparently, being a moderator on the OSR Discord server makes him worthwhile while others are not. Petty and malicious gate-keeping of this sort isn't solely relegated to the OSR community, it can be found in most branches of fandom these days...
ReplyDeleteAs can the sort of small, petty people who carry out such behaviors.
I wouldn't make that assumption. James was acting shite, and it doesn't represent his typical attitude or actions. I think, if you took a more rounded look at the situation you'd see it was a lot more nuanced than all that. I wouldn't be in that server if petty and malicious gatekeeping were actually happening. I'd be happy to discuss the situation from my view, for sure!
DeleteI'm banned. I'm denied from being listed on the "OSR Blog List."That isn't gatekeeping? We were lied to as to why my blog was constantly delisted/ That's nuanced?
DeleteBTW, do you notice you are allowed to comment here? Go figure that one out.
I'm not sure I understand why they are doing this. Do I have the short of it here? Did these contessa people decide to exclude white males from an event and then their supporters banned Tenkar's for asking why because 'he's not inclusive'?
ReplyDeletelooks like some proxy wars are going on!
DeleteIt's because Tenkar's influence and presence makes other members of the community feel unwelcome, and the OSR discord prioritized being inclusive, and a place for *everyone*.
DeleteWould you mind explaining how my "influence and presence" makes other members of the community feel unwelcome? How is a place for *everyone* when it excludes people not for what they've said or done, but simply because they are somehow associated with me?
DeleteUp is down and left is right.
Another reason I want very little to do with the OSR. The OSR should burn in a fire. The label isn't needed anymore and all the label does is allow for people to act like bullies and gatekeep the hobby. 10 years ago it was helpful. We don't need the name anymore.
ReplyDeleteLet them eat themselves. If we leave them alone they will purge all the non believers and then the Jacobins can start eating each other.
If you hate it so much, why are you a member of the MeWe OSR group?
DeleteI don't hate the OSR. I like to play old school games. I hate the gatekeeping that has really come into play.
DeleteYou literally said "The OSR should burn in a fire" and "The label isn't needed anymore"
DeleteThat's you hating it. Don't try to backpedal; own up to it.
If you think the label isn't needed any more, and if the OSR should "burn in a fire" then you should eschew any connection with it. And yet there you are, when it's convenient for you. Take the plunge, make the first step, and disassociate yourself with it now! Lead the revolution!
Or just shut up, stop bloviating, and play RPGs like the rest of us.
Because a communications platform is different than the labels it adopts.
DeleteAlso #MeWe prioritizes privacy, so why are you blurting out their membership here? What purpose does it serve? What's your intent?
Hey dude, where are my Fudge Dice?
DeleteNincompoops like James aren't part of the OSR. They just hijacked the OSR label for their own little SJW server. They have a little-personal-empire attitude, and a cover-up mentality. That's why they can't stand Erik.
DeleteCavegirl here.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's fair accuse me of lying here: I'm genuinely unable to find the audit logs you talked about. Possibly I've got an old version of discord without that feature, possibly I can't see it for some reason such as the permissions settings (I'm not good at computers). Maybe you edit this bit to reflect that?
Mods sometimes fuck up, we're human beings with lives of our own. Sometimes we're tired or stressed or distracted or whatever. In this instance, up until today I believe you'd only been booted from the chat but not banned, I'm currently unsure why, as I wasn't online for these incidents. I strongly suspect this was a case where a mod made a snap decision at 3am that turned out to be a bad call, but it wasn't malice.
(fwiw we're working on getting a set of principles written up to make modding more transparent so you can see what we try to base decisions on. We're aiming to be pretty laisez-fair and only ban people if they're genuinely damaging to the server, which pexx doesn't seem to be. As I say, this is an anomaly).
This isn't some sort of big conflict, at least on my end, and I really hope we can resolve things amicably.
This has been a bit of a fuckup. I'm not speaking for the rest of the mod team here, but on a personal note I'm sorry this has happened and will try to avoid shit like this in future.
Paragraph 1: It was my second train of thought then, you simply don’t have access to those set of features which is perfectly fine. I apologize for accusing you of lying when you simply did not have access, which was indeed unfair of me
DeleteParagraph 2: Yes, I can agree, that all humans are flawed, but this was premeditated over the course of days. He admitted as much. At the time I originally messaged you I had been kicked twice and rejoined twice. 12 hrish later Mr. James Young sent me that disrespectful message and then banned me from your server. I don’t believe it was a snap decision like you suspect, not with the recorded history and 3 days of actions. It’s just simply an abuse of power on his end. I think getting a set of principles written up is a step in the right direction certainly. I wouldn’t call this anomaly so much as someone going rogue on your staff that is drunk with power because “they can”.
Paragraph 3: You have to look at from my point of view, I messaged 2 moderators and the server owner about this incident and 12hrs later I am banned from your server without a word from any of your staff or owner with update, besides Mr. James Young PMing me with his disrespectful message followed by banning me. I can agree y’all were still trying to figure things out, but this was a “grade a fuck up”. So much so I felt the need to speak out vs. letting it get swept under the rug by staying silent. For what it is worth I do accept your personal apology as I believe you, the other moderator, and the server owner were just a victim in this mess of things that James Young has caused.
fair. I'm unsure what's up with this stuff.
DeleteThings have spiralled into a broad discussion about mod principles at this point.
Is James Young still a moderator? If yes, why? He shouldn't be in a position of authority.
Delete@Cavegirl I don't see how you can look at your fellow mod James Young's statement "Hey man it’s me who keeps kicking you for a laugh. Anyway I’m banning you because you’re a worthless part of any community you’re in.” and say that it's just "a case where a mod made a snap decision at 3am that turned out to be a bad call, but it wasn't malice."
DeleteEmmy is one of the Mods though. She doesn’t have say over who is a Mod or who stays a Mod. She also didn’t make the decision to ban. It’s real stand up that she’s put herself out there, but she’s not the final decision maker (right?) the owner is. Sad though that this kind of stuff happened. It’s not like there are millions of us, it shouldn’t be this hard to be cordial to each other.
DeleteThe crazy constructor of flowers has a point, and failing to condemn James' egregious commentary (to say nothing of not being straight forward about why Tenkar was removed from the list _when asked_, and then banning the person who put it there _twice without explanation_) is incongruous with the model of who you are that I've formed from reading your blog. They are acting in a harmful manner, and I'd thing you would want to do something about that.
DeleteBecause James should not be a moderator. Full stop. And continuing to mod the server these actions were taken on condones that behavior.
I can understand being kicked for a reason but the admins/moderators should have the decency to be upfront about it. It seems to be one persons personal views taking precedence over everything else. I dislike behaviour like this so have taken the decision and left the OSR Discord server
ReplyDeleteJust checked to see if I had this James Young clown's blog on my own blog roll. Fortunately, no, I do not. Never been a regular reader, and I'll never again click any link for Ten Foot Polemic.
ReplyDeleteThe OSR discord doesn't do anything. They used to fawn over Zak before they had to disavow him, and they spent the rest of their time (zak included) talking about how awful I am.
ReplyDeleteAnd James Young has never produced anything at all of value.
Meanwhile, the /OSR/ subreddit is just as infested with SJW garbage. There, they started a thread for the sole purpose of attacking and insulting me, where some of the people there told blatant lies, including one about my supposedly endorsing the violence at Charlottesville, which I disproved. The people who posted that lie ADMITTED that he lied (he claimed he 'misremembered'), but then the mods decided to censor my blog from their blog roll anyways! Which was exactly what the SJWs were demanding he do. So it didn't matter that they started a whole thread that broke their supposed rules to pile shit on me, or that they pulled a Jussie-smollett on me and got caught, the mods still REWARDED them for it, and punished me.
https://youtu.be/ZGmF6xQEIFQ
SJWs can't help but ruin everything they touch.
ReplyDeleteBut kudos to Cavegirl and her response. She put herself out there. An order of magnitude more decency and courage than James Young.
Childish.
ReplyDeleteBut has anything been resolved?
ReplyDeleteYes, they lifted the ban. James Young did DM an apology, and they have said they are reviewing their policy on moderation. Chris McDowall and I have been exchanging DMs as well.
DeleteHey, I'm in that OSR Discord, and I heavily disagree. It's a community full of solid people, that's still trying to recover from a pretty big community shake-up. Tolerance and good faith are community principles. And following 'their' politics isn't required, just abstaining from behaviour that actively degrades the community.
DeleteI can't wait until a giant meteorite hits this planet and smashes us into smithereens! People suck, there's no tolerance for anyone anymore. Everyone pushes their own agendas, can't listen to another persons opinions and let them have one. You ALL SUCK!
ReplyDeleteMore typical SJW drivel. I'm happy staying at Tenkar's
ReplyDelete